130. Growing in Tech with Farrah Campbell
In this episode, we had the pleasure to interview Farah Campbell, head of modern compute community at AWS, prolific speaker, and former AWS Hero. We discussed Farah's career journey from healthcare into tech, tips on public speaking, dealing with imposter syndrome, the pace of innovation in the cloud, and predictions for the future. Farah shared personal stories and advice for getting started in tech and being an active member of the community. It was inspiring to hear from someone so passionate about helping others learn and grow.
AWS Bites is brought to you by fourTheorem. If you are looking for a partner to architect, develop and modernise on AWS, give fourTheorem a call. Check out fourtheorem.com.
In this episode, we mentioned the following resources:
- Farrah's favourite AWS Bites episode with Jeremy Daly
- Farrah on X (Twitter)
- Farrah on Linkedin
Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of AWS Bites podcast. My name is Luciano, and as always, I'm joined by Eoin. But today is a bit special because we have with us a very special guest, Farrah Campbell. And I'm sure that if you have done anything with AWS, you are familiar with Farrah. But in case you're not, Farrah works for AWS, and she is Head of Modern Compute Community. She's also a prolific international speaker, and she has been working very closely with AWS Heroes.
So today we want to get Farrah's opinion on a bunch of AWS related topics, and we're sure it's going to be an awesome and interesting episode. So without further ado, let's get into it. AWS Bites is brought to you by fourTheorem. If you're looking for a partner to architect, develop and modernize on AWS, give fourTheorem a call. You can check out fourtheorem.com to find more information about what we do, some of our case studies, and how to reach out to us. Okay, let's get started. So thanks, first of all, Farrah, for taking the time. We know that you are always super busy and going around off to different conferences and events. So it's amazing that you found some time for us, and we're really happy to have you here on the podcast. Should we start maybe with a quick introduction on your side?
Yeah, thank you for having me. Sorry it took so long to make this happen. I'm super excited to be here. But yeah, no, my name is Farrah Campbell. I work at AWS, and I get to work with our amazing developers around the world, specifically the Heroes and our Community Builders. But yeah, I'm super excited to be here.
Farrah, you mentioned the AWS Heroes program, and that's one thing I really wanted to ask about, because we have, I think, a former Hero and a current Hero on the call. So tell us about this program. I think a lot of people are really interested in understanding how you get into it, right? What are the features of an AWS Hero? And maybe do you have any recommendations for people who might like to be a Hero one day?
Yeah, sure. No, I mean, like the AWS Heroes program really recognizes people that go out of their way to help others through knowledge sharing. They go above and beyond really trying to make sure that they help to unblock people with things that they've been able to figure out. This isn't a program that you can apply for. It's not something you can get accepted or rejected from. It really is a program that looks for people that are going out of their way consistently. And it's basically, it's something that happens because of other things that you are doing. And I guess my recommendation would be that for any aspiring Heroes, that really shouldn't be the goal. The goal really should be to help others and to continue to go above and beyond for them, to share knowledge, trying to help others within the communities that you're a part of. Maybe you maintain open source projects, but really the goal should be to help others because there really is no set way to become one. I still don't even know how I got in.
It sounds like the whole idea of trying to become an AWS Hero is against the very principle really that the people who aren't really trying, you're just helping people by their nature will get selected. I should probably clarify as well. I mentioned we have a former Hero and that's yourself. And just in case anybody thinks you can get ejected from the Heroes program, you probably should explain why you're not allowed to be a Hero anymore.
Yeah, you cannot be a Hero and work at AWS. The point is to recognize people outside of the company that are working to help others. It's not about the people internally that are working to help others. But yeah, I actually thought about that when I was deciding if I was going to actually apply for the job. So I'm like, did I want to lose my Hero status? Because I just loved being part of that group so much that it was hard to let that go.
I appreciate that. Once a part of the group, I think you're always part of the group. And that's one of the beauties about the program. And actually, I think just the AWS community in general is just such a welcoming community. And I feel like there's so many people that work to help each other. And we actually really enjoy working together and spending time together.
Yeah, I mean, it's a shame that you had to hand in the Hero badge. But as in your current role, I guess you get to be part of that in a very impactful way. There's also the AWS Community Builders idea. And since Heroes sounds like it's very much about community, and getting content out there, helping people to learn in various different ways, it might be a bit confusing for people. What is the distinguishing thing about Community Builders compared to Heroes?
Yeah, sure. I mean, because the Heroes program is a bit more exclusive, and there's no real way to put your hand up and say, hey, I want to be involved. The Community Builders program was created, it was a few years ago, and that one you can actually apply for. So we have applications that you can put your name in the pool. I believe it's once a year, we used to do it twice a year, but now it's just once a year. And so that the waitlist is open, and we'll review those applications and hopefully accept as many people as possible. But that really is the defining differences that you can apply to be an AWS Community Builder and put your hand up to be considered for the program, or the Hero program, somebody internally has to make that call and to basically reach out to you.
Okay, and so what would you say to people who are saying, okay, that's fine, I just have to wait to be called on as a Hero, but what do I need to do to get involved in Community Builders? Is there somewhere they should go?
Yeah, I mean, you go to the AWS Developer Center page, and it's listed right there. Even if you search AWS Community Builders, the application will come right up. It's a pretty highly utilized site. But that's really different. And get involved in the user groups in your area. Or maybe if you're involved in DevOps, and you want to get involved in the DevOps community, and then starting to use AWS, but I would really say, just joining some of the local communities that are in your area, there's so many of them all over the world, it's actually incredible, really. So there's many opportunities just to kind of start getting involved. And we also have a lot of people listed on the websites. And so you can reach out to others that are actually in the community, when you join an AWS user group or attend an event, and kind of ask somebody, what did they do to join the program. But I think really starting to kind of network with the like-minded individuals is really helpful for people that are looking to be part of the program.
That's definitely a great suggestion. I actually want to change subject just a little bit. I was in Copenhagen, I think it was AWS Community Day, some time ago, we met there, and I attended your talk. I think it was an amazing talk where you basically share your career and some advices for people that are not necessarily just in cloud, but like more in technology. So maybe one thing that we can talk about today is just a quick summary of your career, what you think were the right choices, the mistakes and the things you learn. And then in a way, what can we share with people so that we can give them suggestions if they want to get started in tech?
Yeah, no. So actually, mine is really interesting. You know, I spent over a decade in healthcare management, did not enjoy that really at all. It just was not, it wasn't fulfilling in any way that I wanted it to be. And I was always infatuated with the tech industry. My stepdad had a company that I got to work at when I was 18. And it was just so fun to be around people that were like creating something from nothing, you know, come up with these random ideas.
And then, you know, they were writing it in that language that I didn't even understand. So I was just so curious about everything that they were doing. And it just seemed kind of like magic to me. And then I moved to Portland, Oregon, and there was, I mean, there seemed like there's a kind of a vibrant tech community there coming from like Klamath Falls and Eugene, but there really wasn't at the time.
And so I decided that I wanted to start trying to get involved in tech or get a job and I applied for like a year, nothing happened. And then I started volunteering at tech events. The first one was TechFest Northwest. I ended up meeting Kara Swisher. And she was basically like, why are you not working in tech? You seem like you love it. And I, you know, basically explained I hadn't, nobody was taking my applications, I wasn't getting accepted.
But I had this offer for this part time job. And she's like, you know, you should really just kind of go for it. And she sent me Steve Jobs commencement address from Stanford. And so I did, I, you know, quit my full time job, which was really scary, because I was a single, you know, I was a single mom, I've always been a single mom with two boys. And so, you know, making sure that I could pay the bills was really important.
But I ended up turning that job into, you know, full time within a month, I was an office manager. And from there, my, you know, I met somebody at that office. And so then my next role was a director of operations at another small startup, and then another director of operations role that got expanded to customer and people operations. And then I ended up at Stackery, you know, where it was like, basically my first time, you know, I guess, like out in the field or in the wild.
And, you know, really, my goal working there was to build out the AWS relationship and, you know, to help to get, you know, developers interested in the work, you know, the work that we were doing. And that's kind of really where it all started, you know, it was kind of my first intro working in the cloud at Stackery and into serverless. And it was just so many exciting things happen. And so I really think that job was really pivotal, because it allowed me to, you know, put my, you know, to get started with the AWS community and then serverless and things kind of really just took off from there. It's really crazy, because every single one of my jobs, I was not qualified for at all. But I somehow made it work.
That's actually what was my talk was about yesterday is like, you know, stepping outside of your comfort zone. You know, I talked about, you know, as children, we believe we can do anything, you know, like the world is our oyster, you know, I mean, like, jump, I thought I could run as fast as my parents car was going and I obviously couldn't, you know, but, you know, talking about like, instead of thinking that you can't, you know, start telling ourselves that, you know, we can, and really kind of adopt this like growth mindset, you know, stop questioning our ability, you know, embrace, you know, that that actually failing is an opportunity to grow, and you're only really failing if you give up. And so I think, yeah, I think really stepping outside of your comfort zone and trying things that, you know, really kind of push you outside of, you know, what you're comfortable doing is kind of key really here, I think, and growing specifically, I think, in this industry, too, because things are just changing all the time. And so I feel like most people are always feeling like they don't know everything and are feeling like they're out of their comfort zone all sometimes, no matter what they're doing.
Is that characteristic that kind of perseverance to keep pushing yourself outside your comfort zone until you got that turning point and you were able to get into that role at Stackery? Is that something that's part of your personality? Or was that something that you learned through the process? Was there like a sliding door moment where you could have just called it quits and didn't? I definitely could have called it quits.
I mean, I was in tears basically and having panic attacks on most every single one of the roles that I was doing just because I felt so out of my element. And I just felt like everybody knew so much more than I did. In fact, I mean, like I as an office manager, I mean, I stopped the meeting because I thought they were talking about people when they were talking about Jason and Cassandra. You know, and so like I was constantly, you know, asking, you know, what I felt were silly questions, but they really weren't, you know, I mean, I remember my first time actually was talking about my first time using the computer.
And it's like when I was 18, I was really kind of doing something. And then like the error popped up and it said you performed on a legal operation, you know, is going to close down. And I was so worried the cops were going to get called and I was going to be in trouble with my stepdad. I mean, it just kind of, you know, I feel like I've constantly, you know, felt out of my element. But again, I kind of gone back that like that was not me as a child.
I was definitely a go getter. And I don't know what happened to me over the years that where I came into this questioning everything I can do or sizing myself up. And so I really when I made the decision to make the move to tech, I really decided I was going to be brave, you know, to push myself. I was going to do whatever I could to be positive because there was no way I was going to keep showing up every day when I was feeling like a failure or without, you know, continuing to kind of focus on like the potential that was there.
And just, you know, trying to have some like resilience to, you know, what I was going to be going through. I think that's really a huge part of, you know, actually kind of growing your career. And then I don't think anybody exceed, you know, cheap success in isolation. And so I think, you know, another really critical aspect of my career growth has really been the connections that I've made along the way.
Very early on, you know, I was very focused on the relationships, not the transactions that, you know, were at hand and, you know, work to make sure that, yeah, just work to make sure that I was developing a relationship that would end up helping me. I mean, some of those early relationships are still helping me, you know, today. The people that I can lean on, the people that, you know, want to see me succeed. And I think that's really, really important when you're getting started in tech is, you know, to kind of have somebody there to help support, kind of keep you, help keep you moving forward. You know, somebody else that is, you know, can maybe offer some advice when things seem tough or just to give you some like encouragement when you're ready to throw your keyboard or your computer at the wall because something still isn't working.
Another similar question I have is that you moved from kind of a very serverless focused community to a broader role where you are advocating for pretty much the broader world of AWS. Is there any anything interesting there that you want to share? Maybe any anecdote, any story or I don't know, you liked it more when it was serverless and more focused or like the whole AWS gives you more opportunities?
I mean, serverless will always be, have like a very special place in like my heart, just because it was such a different feeling getting started with this community. You know, everything was so new. Everybody was learning from one another, you know, there was really no wrong answer because you know, people were working to, you know, figure out what they had to solve problems for their own business objectives and those were different, but there was so many different ways to do things, right.
And again, it was just so exciting. You know, the community really wanted to learn from one another, so it definitely will always hold a special place in my heart. I think the big difference is just understanding like the scale and the amount of things that are happening all over the world and, you know, being able to kind of see that from the inside. It's just incredible. And I think another thing is like being able to kind of help bring some of the containers and serverless together.
Like I will never forget the very first time I had a call with the Heroes and we had, you know, I was bringing the serverless Heroes and the container Heroes together. And they're like, I think it was Mike Fielder. He's like, are we supposed to be on the same call together? Like, are we allowed? Like, are we all really going to... We're bringing this all together. And I think that's really important because it allows the conversations and, you know, for people to learn from things that are working for other teams, you know, that might, you know, different technologies that other people are using. But yeah, I think the scale really, and, you know, coming from small startups, you know, kind of very focused on, you know, very specific, you know, workloads and things that we were at Stackery and now at AWS, it's, you know, it's really incredible. And it also feels like more pressure. I'll say that too, because like the impact, anything that you do, there's more impact. You can have. And so there's, I think it's, for me, it feels like a lot more pressure to, you know, to do the right thing.
I can only imagine, to be honest, because of the scale of everything you're dealing with at AWS. But one thing you still do quite a lot of, and you mentioned that, you know, you're just, you're still speaking quite a lot. You've done a lot of talks around the world, even several keynotes. Is this part of what you were saying about just building your network or what is speaking specifically for you? What's the goal there? Why do you do it? I don't really know why I do it.
I actually am surprised people ask me. I mean, even the first time when I was asked, I didn't know, I actually was really scared to go talk in front of a bunch of developers. Because I didn't know, I didn't think that they were, I would have anything relevant to say. But I think it kind of started after I was involved in this documentary called The Chasing Grace. And the film was really about, you know, different aspects of, you know, working in tech specifically, you know, from an, I guess, from a female's point of view, I'll say that.
But the film I was in is about, you know, closing the pay gap and different ways, you know, women have approached, you know, handling that. But from there, I had a little bit of exposure. And I got to meet a few other people. And I was talking to Andrew Clay Schafer at Reinvent. This is, I don't know, seven years ago. And he actually said, I should get up on stage. He's like, I should start doing talks to kind of help, you know, show people that you can, you know, you can change your career and end up in a good place, right?
And so I put my hat into the ring one time at a local event in Portland, Oregon called TAO. And it was a lightning talk about opening your doors and changing your narrative. And again, it's, you know, kind of shifting your mindset into, you know, I can and, you know, focusing on being positive, you know, choosing to reframe things that are happening on a day to day basis that are negative, that might impact, you know, how I'm feeling to something more positive, you know, so it doesn't affect me and bring me down.
But then after that, I was offered like to DevOps days, Dallas reached out and offered me offered me a slot. And then from there, serverless days, Sydney, that was my very first international talk, and I will never forget it. But I think I, you know, I keep doing it because I keep getting asked and I feel like there must be something there. And people must be learning something from me. So if I if I can help anybody else to, you know, show that that you're making a jump in your career or that, you know, I don't I didn't get a college degree. You know, I was a very, you know, I was married, divorced with two kids at 24. And that is not that is not how I envisioned my life to be when I was a teenager. And so I think it's, you know, I'll keep doing this as long as I feel like other or as long as others feel like I have something useful to say.
I've seen you speak in the past, and I think it's clear why you became a Community Hero. Like for anybody, we all suffer from imposter syndrome, but for anybody who has like a harder route into tech, then to be honest, this relatively straightforward route that I had, you know, it could be so challenging for people. But even even people like I definitely got something out of it from the point of view of thinking about imposter syndrome, which is, I think, universal. Yeah. And I'm sorry. How do we get over that?
Like, what is I mean, like I even I work with some of the smartest people from all over the world, even I mean, like community members internally at AWS. And I feel like everybody has imposter syndrome. I'm like, why is this when like, everybody is so incredible? It just I mean, it makes me feel better sometimes, like selfishly, which I feel bad even saying that when I hear others do. But I even talk to some distinguished engineers here at AWS that, you know, suffer from it. I'm like, how is that even possible? Like, you have so many people that look up to you, you know, how do you why aren't you feeling that, you know, and kind of like, I got this, like, I'm good at what I do. But maybe maybe someday we'll get there. But I just feel like I hear so many people talking about imposter syndrome, and I really wish that we could move past that. But it's tough. Yeah, let's let's see what we can do.
I mean, I think it's great that we're talking about it, because at least then, you know, it helps to build empathy when you realize that everybody's feeling the same way to some degree. And, you know, to treat people a bit better and avoid a lot of the problems we've had, I guess, traditionally. So I think any more people we can get out there speaking who aren't speaking today, that that certainly helps. Just just to broaden the voices we have out there, and I'd love to know, do you have any advice for people who are struggling to get out there also nervous, like 99% of people are reluctant to apply and commit to doing public speaking? Do you have any advice? Yeah, I mean, I would say start small.
Like, I mean, I got to I and I definitely did that, you know, you want to start with something a little bit more low pressure engagement, you know, maybe like a local meetup, you know, there's web, you know, webinars, you know, there's there's so many different opportunities to kind of throw your hat into the ring. And then I think too, like, it's really important to know your why, you know, so like, why do you want what do you want to speak about? Is it you know, to inspire? Is it to educate to share your experiences, you know, so I think really, that will really help to kind of guide content to make sure that you know, that the information is valuable.
And I think, you know, people really connect with stories, you know, personal ones. And I that, you know, that's really how I mean, all my talks have been, you know, focused on that. And they'll start with, like, you know, my story, the journey, the challenges, the triumphs. I don't think a lot of people even like to talk about the challenges are where like the things that really were hard, or, you know, kind of discussing all the trials and just the inadequacies that you know, you know, you might have had along the way, but I think, you know, really being authentic is really key, you know, to making lasting impact. And, you know, if this is something that you want to do, I think, you know, making sure that it's like, whatever you're doing is authentic is really, really important if you want to continue to do it. And then believing in yourself, like confidence comes from within, you know, remind yourself that, you know, you have valuable insights, that your voice matters, that your opinion matters. And I have reminders that I sent, that are sent to my, that I set up, and I have multiple different ones that help me with, you know, being brave, or just kind of telling myself that I'm like, I'm a badass, like, you got this, you know, and just like, and those are really, really helpful for me to kind of keep going. Because, you know, when I get, sometimes you get into that negative self talk. And so when a reminder kind of pops up, or remind you to step outside, or you got this, it's okay to fail, you know, don't give up, that's actually failing, you know, things like that. I think the reminders have really, really helped me. And I do those a lot when I'm getting ready to do a talk, because it's, I still am so nervous. And just, yeah.
That's definitely a great strategy. I like it. Maybe I'm going to copy it. But yeah, I wanted to remark a little bit the imposter syndrome with a slightly different question. My opinion, at least the way I feel it is more like an anxiety that this world is moving so fast, and you'll never be able to even catch up. Because as you learn something new, there are already five new things that just came out this morning. And you like, really don't even have the time to try to learn all of them. So I think, personally, I feel that this weight of this, this world is going so fast, and I can just try to chase it, but I'll never reach a point where I can say, Oh, yeah, I know everything that there is to know in this craft, because changes so fast, right? Which in a way is great, because our work is so varied, and everything is always new. So every day is a different adventure, but can create that anxiety and that feeling of not good enough for what the world needs right now. So I guess if we try to translate that into the cloud, we have seen lots of changes, of course, since the beginning of the cloud is one of the most rapidly evolving fields in tech. But I think especially in the last few years, there has been a lot of innovation. So maybe my question to you is like, yeah, what do you think about that? And maybe what's your bold prediction for the future of the cloud?
You know, with AI, ML, the Gen AI, I think it's going to become part of just the tooling conversation. I don't think it's going to be the focus on Gen AI, I think it's going to be this is kind of going to be like your assistant that people are using. I think that's probably my big thing is that. I think that we've over indexed talking about it so much. But I really, I mean, I see how it can be helpful. I use a lot of these tools to, you know, kind of get some of the grunt work out. And so it allows me to work more on strategic things instead of the actual, you know, the building this random, you know, going through survey data and trying to, you know, make some assumptions like and I can easily create an app that does things like that for you know, for me. But I think that it's soon it will just become part of like the tooling that people are using. And there won't be such a focus on like, let's make sure we say this as a word in part of the you know, the the blog post just so we can get attention. It kind of reminds me of like when well serverless was that way very early on, like blockchain was that way, you know, early on, I mean, the same is like, it's Yeah, it'll it'll move on. And it just kind of become part of the way we work. And I don't think that I think we're all going to be learning, we're all going to have to learn just as much as we do today. In five years, 10 years, I don't think the pace ever stops. Because it just the more we learn, the more we want to do more of and it just it just keeps just keeps going.
Yeah, or like, just, you know, I think even to now, like people are, you know, kind of, I don't know, you kind of want to step away or like, maybe I don't want to even read that because I'm sick of hearing about it. You know, people won't feel like that anymore. But yeah, it's, it's a it's a crazy time. And I don't see it ever ending. But I mean, was it different earlier on? Like, when do you I'm actually very curious. I have a question for you guys that have been in this a lot longer than I have, you know, how like, how you really think in the last three to four years, it's been a lot different. Or have you seen this this this kind of pace of innovation start earlier than you know, what I've experienced?
It just, it amplifies every message so much until you can barely tolerate the amount of noise around it. But unfortunately, that means that it's, there's very little space for 'sane discussion', if I could call it that, or just meaningful discussion, because everything is drowned out. So I think you just it feels I don't know what you think, but it feels like you just kind of have to wait until the noise dissipates to find out exactly what's left. That's that's going to be sustainable and meaningful into the future. I'm definitely I definitely have Gen AI fatigue just from listening to the term. But I still it's still exciting, right? But it's very hard to actually keep that excitement going when there's so much hype.
I definitely agree with that. I definitely agree with that. Yeah, I agree as well. I think that the bit that maybe we are not talking nearly as much is not Gen AI in itself. I think as a topic, it can be interesting. There's definitely lots of interesting stuff in there.
But I think we are failing to bring to the conversation table, the pros and cons, like the why and the when and the how and it's not a solution for everything. So I think if we get to a conversation where we focus more on the technicalities of it, where we say, okay, for this use case, maybe yes, maybe this way, for this other use case, it might look like it makes sense. But then in reality, there are other solutions that might be better. So it's not like it's a universal tool that is going to solve all the problems. And I think that's what the media's are actually portraying. And that's a little bit misleading and annoying from somebody that comes with a little bit of a technical background. So hopefully when we get there, I think the conversations are going to get a little bit more useful and maybe less annoying.
I definitely agree. I feel like we've over indexed on it so hard and make it like promise it's going to do all these things. But I really see it as an assistance. It can be like somebody could do some helpful things, but you're still going to check on it. You're not going to just use whatever somebody gave you. But anyhow, I also remember you brought up the buzzwords. So when I was at Stackery, I made a shirt called, it just said, 'Continuously DevOpsing microserverless', because I just was like, I'm going to put all the buzzwords on the shirt. It was so funny. I made socks and shirts actually. And they were actually a pretty big hit.
We'll take some of the credits when that happens. Okay, let's change the subject a little bit. We actually have just one last question, which is a little bit of a fun one. If you have a favorite cover art of AWS Bites podcast, just because we spend more time, I think, creating the cover art than everything else. I think this is an important question for us.
I don't know. I think they're pretty random. Whatever is the inspiration of the day, but definitely there have been a few inspired by movies. So yeah. So do you have any final remark or anything else that you want to share? If people maybe want to connect with you or shout to you, where can they find you?
They can find me on Twitter. I still call it Twitter. I'm not gonna not call it Twitter. But I'm with FarrahC32 on Twitter. I'm probably more active there than LinkedIn. But I also, you know, I try to, I try to be as active as I can on as many of these social sites as you know, that I have time for. But yeah, LinkedIn, Twitter. I love connecting with others. So you know, please do reach out. Definitely always happy to help. And if people have questions about how to kind of get started in, you know, within the community, they want to ping me directly. I'm, you know, that please do. I try to, you know, work with as many people and offer help and support wherever I can.
And to make that a little bit easier, we'll make sure to have all these links in the show notes. So you don't have to remember or try to do the spelling. Just just click on the link and you can connect with Farrah. So again, thank you so much for being with us. It's been an honor and a pleasure. So yeah, again, amazing stuff. And thank you, everybody, for listening in today. And hopefully this was interesting to you. Leave us a comment. Let us know if there was any question that we might have missed, because maybe we'll do another episode in the future with Farrah and we can ask more questions. So, all right. Thank you so much, everyone. And we'll see you in the next one.
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